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Vice President Kamala Harris has done a lot of softball interviews recently, but her appearance on Alex Cooper’s Sunday Call Her Daddy podcast made those interviews look tough as Cooper took her usual non-political sex and relationship advice podcast and turned it into a giant promotional ad for abortion.

Cooper declared, “I do wanna focus on abortion for a moment because two years ago Roe v. Wade was overturned and women lost their constitutional right to an abortion.”

By “a moment,” Cooper meant half the show, “I met with women that were getting screamed at and chanted at and called ‘Baby Killers.’ And it was the most eye-opening experience I’ve ever had because I am a privileged white woman that lives in Los Angeles and I am so aware of that. I understand that a lot of the younger generation sees things online and is like, what is right, what is wrong? What is real, what is not? Can you explain and talk about what is actually happening to abortion access right now in this country?”

Harris replied by giving a long, rambling answer that urged listeners to sympathize with a woman who has to travel out of state to obtain an abortion because her home state bans it:

One out of three women are by the way, in our country, and she’s a mom. So, she’s going to have to figure out one, God help her if she has affordable childcare, God help her if she has paid leave. And then she’s going to have to go to the airport, stand in a TSA line, sit on a plane next to a perfect stranger to go to a city where she’s never been to receive the care she needs. She’s going probably have to get right back on that plane ’cause she’s got those kids, her best friend’s, probably not with her ’cause that’s who’s taking care of the kids, to get back in that TSA line to get back on a plane to go home.

Cooper further lamented, “I remember people begging me like, ‘I just need to afford a bus ticket, so I can get out of this abortion desert that I live in in the South so I can get to a state.’ But they can’t even afford, you know what I mean? So it’s like, it’s awful. These people are literally landlocked into a position that they don’t want to be.”

Harris, of course, agreed, “And that’s what’s so outrageous about it is a bunch of these guys up in these state capitals or writing these decisions because they somehow have decided that they’re in a better position to tell you what’s in your best interest than you are to know what’s in your own best interest. It’s outrageous.”

Cooper then reached for the abortion advocate’s favorite non-sequitur: men not knowing anything about female biology, “It’s outrageous. I mean, Daddy Gang, to put it in our TikTok terms, I have seen girls on the street walk up to men and be like, do you know where a tampon goes? Do you know how many tampons we use? Do you even know how? Like, do you know what a X or Y or Z is of a part of our, and they don’t know the answer.”

Later, Cooper wondered why we even have a debate about when life begins because it’s all about choice, “I was raised Catholic, and abortion is a sin, and when I put out that episode, I had a lot of women reach out to me, saying, ‘Wow, I, you know, live in the south. and I never thought about it that way. Like, maybe I am pro-choice because I won’t get an abortion because of my religion.’ But why should we control what someone else wants to do?”

Because this wasn’t really an interview, but more of a talking point delivery session, Harris echoed, “This is not about imposing my thoughts on you in terms of what you do with your life or your body. It’s actually quite the opposite. It’s saying the government shouldn’t be telling people what to do.”

Cooper then transitioned from T-ball to fake news, “We have these real life names. We have these Yeah. Horrific moments that these people are losing their lives. Right. We have a woman named Amber Thurman who died in Georgia because the abortion bans in that state. The doctors were too afraid to treat her. I know that you spoke to her family. Yeah. What was that conversation like?

Harris replied by giving more details from ProPublica’s story on the matter, but even they were forced to begrudgingly admit they don’t know why the doctors waited to give treatment.

Later still, Cooper, again, was not interested in ethical questions about the origin of life, but “I wanna take a moment and can we try to think of any law that gives the government the power to make a decision about a man’s body?

Harris claimed there are none before diving into a plea for listeners to vote for her based on the issue.

In a non-abortion, but not any less challenging question, Cooper asked, “I saw the governor of Arkansas say, ‘My kids keep me humble. Unfortunately, Kamala Harris doesn’t have anything keeping her humble.’ How did that make you feel?”

Harris claimed the humility might not be a good thing, “I don’t think she understands that there are a whole lot of women out here who, one, are not aspiring to be humble. Two, a whole lot of women out here who have a lot of love in their life, family in their life, and children in their life and I think it’s really important for women to lift each other up.”

For Cooper and Harris, lifting women up apparently means tearing others down, or apart, literally.

Here is a transcript for the October 6 podcast:

Call Her Daddy

ALEX COOPER: I do wanna focus on abortion for a moment because two years ago Roe v. Wade was overturned and women lost their constitutional right to an abortion. I put out an episode about it. I flew to North Carolina. I went to a preferred women’s health center. I met with women that were getting screamed at and chanted at and called “Baby Killers.”

And it was The most eye-opening experience I’ve ever had because I am a privileged white woman that lives in Los Angeles and I am so aware of that. I understand that a lot of the younger generation sees things online and is like, what is right, what is wrong? What is real, what is not? Can you explain and talk about what is actually happening to abortion access right now in this country?

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. So again, I Thank you for what you’ve been doing and at the earliest stage of this and following the stories. So, you know, on public policy, I often tell my team, look, I don’t wanna hear about public policy is a fancy kind of speech or, or, or paper. Tell me how it’ll affect a real person. So let’s talk about how it affects a real person. The majority of women who receive abortion care are mothers. So, if she’s in a state, and by the way, every state in the South except for Virginia, has an abortion ban. Okay.

So, imagine she’s in a state with an abortion ban. One out of three women are by the way, in our country, and she’s a mom. So, she’s going to have to figure out one, God help her if she has affordable childcare, God help her if she has paid leave. And then she’s going to have to go to the airport, stand in a TSA line, sit on a plane next to a perfect stranger to go to a city where she’s never been to receive the care she needs. She’s going probably have to get right back on that plane ’cause she’s got those kids, her best friend’s, probably not with her ’cause that’s who’s taking care of the kids, to get back in that TSA line to get back on a plane to go home.

COOPER: And that’s all If they can even afford the plane ticket or the bus ticket.

HARRIS: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

COOPER: Because when Roe v. Wade was overturned, I remember my DMs were flooded with thousands of women begging me to help and it’s overwhelming and I can’t even imagine. I’m saying that in front of you, but it’s, it’s overwhelming. and I remember people begging me like, “I just need to afford a bus ticket, so I can get out of this abortion desert that I live in in the South so I can get to a state.” But they can’t even afford, you know what I mean? So it’s like, it’s awful. These people are literally landlocked into a position that they don’t want to be.

HARRIS: And here’s the thing here, here’s the thing is that you don’t have to abandon your faith or deeply held beliefs to agree. The government shouldn’t be telling her what to do if she chooses. She’ll talk to her priest, her pastor, her rabbi, her imam, but not the government telling you what to do. And that’s what’s so outrageous about it is a bunch of these guys up in these state capitals or writing these decisions because they somehow have decided that they’re in a better position to tell you what’s in your best interest than you are to know what’s in your own best interest. It’s outrageous.

COOPER: It’s outrageous. I mean, Daddy Gang, to put it in our TikTok terms, I have seen girls on the street walk up to men and be like, do you know where a tampon goes? Do you know how many tampons we use? Do you even know how? Like, do you know what a X or Y or Z is of a part of our, and they don’t know the answer.

HARRIS: I was The first vice president or president to ever in office go to a reproductive he healthcare clinic ever.

…

COOPER: I was raised Catholic, and abortion is a sin, and when I put out that episode, I had a lot of women reach out to me saying, like, “Wow, I, you know, live in the south. and I never thought about it that way. Like, maybe I am pro-choice because I won’t get an abortion because of my religion. But why should we control what someone else wants to do?

HARRIS: Yeah, right. And that’s exactly, and you know what’s interesting, Alex, to your point, what I’m finding as I travel people who before two years ago before Roe v. Wade was, was overturned. People who felt very strong about that they’re anti-abortion, anti-abortion are now seeing what’s happening and saying, “Hmm, I didn’t intend for all this to happen” and I think that’s also why in state after state, so-called red states and so-called blue states, when this issue has been on the ballot, the American people are voting for freedom because ultimately it’s about, look, this is not about imposing my thoughts on you in terms of what you do with your life or your body. It’s actually quite the opposite. It’s saying the government shouldn’t be telling people what to do.

COOPER: I think that unfortunately we have these real life names. We have these Yeah. Horrific moments that these people are losing their lives. Right. We have a woman named Amber Thurman who died in Georgia because the abortion bans in that state. The doctors were too afraid to treat her. I know that you spoke to her family. What was that conversation like?

HARRIS: Yeah. It was heartbreaking, Alex. It was heartbreaking. Her mom and her two sisters. And so Amber was a young mother of a 6-year-old son. She was a medical assistant who was so excited because she was just getting on her feet to be independent. She got her own apartment in a gated community with a pool that her son could play in. She got accepted to nursing school. She was as described by her family, so excited and so ambitious and she had plans then she found out she was pregnant and she didn’t wanna go through with her pregnancy.

And she was living in Georgia and she couldn’t receive care there because she was past six weeks. And so she ended up going to another state and because she was basically it was, she couldn’t get there on time. And because the other state had been so overwhelmed by all these women coming from all these southern states who couldn’t get treatment in their own state, her, the window for her appointment had closed. So, instead of having a surgical procedure, she had medication and basically went back home and then had some complications and went to the hospital ’cause she was bleeding and they delayed 20 hours before they treated her.

Because here’s the thing that’s so messed up about this. Some of these people will say, “whoa, I, but I do believe in exceptions. I believe that there should be an exception in terms of in the life of the mother.”

Okay, here, let’s talk about this. This gets back to again, practical application of policy. Okay. So you believe there’s an exception that the person should receive abortion care if the life of the mother is at risk. You know what that means in practical terms, she’s almost dead before you decide to give her care. What? So we’re going to have public health policy that says a doctor, a medical professional waits until you’re at death’s door before they give you care.

That’s outrageous that anybody would be saying that that is acceptable policy. So until everything that physically could happen to your body in terms of deterioration, only at the point that oh, she might die, is she going get care? Where is the humanity?

…

COOPER: I wanna take a moment and can we try to think of any law that gives the government the power to make a decision–

HARRIS: I know what you’re gonna ask

COOPER: About a man’s body?

HARRIS Let’s just No, no. These are any law. No, no, no. It’s no look we are a work in progress. But here’s the one of the many things I so love about our country, part of the strength of our country and our evolution as a country has been through the fight for the expansion of rights. Not the restriction of rights, but the expansion of rights. And we still have work to do, but I say that that work is born out of love of country and it’s hard work, but it’s good work and it’s important work.

And that’s what’s before each of us and I think that, you know, around election time. But every day back to the conversation that we’ve been having about power, the beauty of a democracy is that we each as individuals have the power to weigh in on this stuff. And around election time, it’s through your vote and you know, and if you’re interested, the ability to organize your friends and family around what you care about, that’s on the ballot. But this is the beauty of a democracy. We each have the power to weigh in on this. and I and I say to everybody, however you vote, don’t let anyone take your power from you.

COOPER: I wanna ask you a question because there again in speaking about women, there has been a very big fixation on biological children, stepchildren, women that have children versus women that don’t have children. It’s like a huge point, somehow, of this entire election, right? I saw the governor of Arkansas said, “My kids keep me humble. Unfortunately, Kamala Harris doesn’t have anything keeping her humble.” How did that make you feel?

HARRIS: I don’t think she understands that there are a whole lot of women out here who, one are not aspiring to be humble. Two, a whole lot of women out here who have a lot of love in their life, family in their life, and children in their life and I think it’s really important for women to lift each other up.

You know, I’ll tell you Alex, one of the things that I have really enjoyed about where the discussion has gone, one of the places it’s gone. We have our family by blood and then we have our family by love and I have both and I consider it to be a real blessing.